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Spaghetti Westerns

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Unregistered(d)	Spaghetti Westerns	Lead	[-]
Posts: 0 Jan 29 01 11:15 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Perhaps Ken can clarify this: I've just heard that Ken Russell's son is suppossed to direct a remake of THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY (one of my favorites) and that Enzo Castellari, the veteran Italian director of westerns and action films, is supervising him. Is there any truth in this? I wonder if Ken will ever read this, since I take it he doesn't like westerns, especially Italian ones???? "Point-of-view is Everything!" Cyclops in THE ATOMIC SUBMARINE
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Ken Hanke	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#1	[-]
Posts: 71304 Jan 29 01 11:54 AM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I saw it only because I look for posts to release, so something good has come of this system perhaps--though Richard usually alerts me if I've been asked something I haven't seen. And the answer is...I have no idea, but I'll find out. Question is: which son? My guess is Xavier, since he's done editing, but it might be Alexander.
MarkDClark	Let me forward again...	#2	[-]
Posts: 4501 Jan 29 01 12:10 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I proposed 10-year ban on all remakes and sequels. WHY would anyone want to remake THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY? Aw hell, I guess if they remade PSYCHO they'll remake any damned thing. Look for CASABLANCA 2002, with one the kids from N'Sync as Rick, coming to a theater near you soon. Now, spaghetti westerns, I like. Anybody wanna talk about 'em?
Unregistered(d)	Re: Let me forward again...	#3	[-]
Posts: 0 Jan 29 01 2:09 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've got a huge collection of em. Love to talk about even the worst obscurites (ie: Mario Bava's ROY COLT & WINCHESTER JACK): Favorites: ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST (the best) THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY (most entertaining) DJANGO (see clip in THE HARDER THEY COME w/Jimmy Cliff) DJANGO STRIKES AGAIN (outdoes RAMBO) A BULLET FOR THE GENERAL (Karl Marxist Western) AND GOD SAID TO CAIN (Biblical allegory w Kinski as avenger) VENGEANCE (Richard Harrison in surreal, atmospheric goth western) KILL AND PRAY (another Marxist Western with Pasolini) MASSACRE TIME (Lucio Fulci western with whip-crazy villain) DJANGO KILL...! (Crazed ultra violent w gay outlaw gang dressed in black leather vs Tomas Milian) "Point-of-view is Everything!" Cyclops in THE ATOMIC SUBMARINE
Unregistered(d)	It can be done, Amigo . . .	#4	[-]
Posts: 0 Jan 29 01 3:46 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	. . . talking about spaghetti westerns, I mean. Mark: If you dig spaghetti westerns, I heartily recommend Vengeance (aka Joko invoca Dio... e muori) recently issued on DVD by Image Entertainment. A routinely plotted tale of (surprise!) revenge, Vengeance is redeemed by the stylish direction of Anthony Dawson (cult Italian horror icon Antonio Margheriti). Starring Richard Harrison (beefcake star of "sword and sandal" epics such as Medusa vs. the Son of Hercules and Messalina Vs. the Son of Hercules) - channeling Clint Eastwood by sporting the regulation squinty eyes and clenched teeth - it concerns a soft-spoken but two-fisted "half-breed" who is murderously intent on avenging a friend's murder. Subgenrewise, Vengeance is not much different from your average, garden-variety spaghetti western. However, its saving grace is the perceptible tone of horror that is inflected in the memorable conclusion by Margheriti ( Horror Castle, The Long Hair of Death, Wild, Wild Planet). Staged in a vast, amber-hued cavern, the customary final showdown is a thrilling set piece. Margheriti excitingly twists that genre convention on its ear by employing a potent amalgam of horror film techniques and elements such as sinister shadows, monochromatic cinematography (creating psychological unease and giving the vignette an eerie, nightmarish quality), and a caped villain who is a mad, laughing fiend with a twisted facial expression. Favaloso, and well showcased on Image's DVD, which presents a handsome print in 16 x 9 widescreen format! Worth a look but less recommended is A Bullet for the General, recently issued on VHS by MGM Home Entertainment. Besides finding this "political" western extremely (and mindlessly) violent, I was also unimpressed by MGM's presentation, which offers a (to me) unacceptable transfer of a mediocre print. In its favor, it contains a robust performance by Gian Maria Volonte ( For A Few Dollars More, Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion, Sacco and Vanzetti) as the kill-crazy bandido El Chucho, the always magnetic Klaus Kinski, and the equally captivating Martine Beswick. Admittedly, its plot is distinguished by an unsubtle political statement about the mercenary actions of an imperial nation (America) to intervene in the foreign affairs of other countries and militaristically foment and aid revolution. But, for me, that message was noisily overwhelmed by the cacophony of gunfire every five minutes. Regards, macnemo
Ken Hanke	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#5	[-]
Posts: 71304 Jan 29 01 6:10 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Heard back from Leonard Pollack on the question of a Russell offsprint doing THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY, and he's heard nothing, but says it would be Toby Russell (so I guessed wrong). However, he gave me T'other Ken's e-mail address (yes, Ken Russell is finally online--watch out), so I've kicked the question over to him...
Unregistered(d)	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#6	[-]
Posts: 0 Jan 29 01 6:28 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	TOBY Russell was the name mentioned, seeing Ken's post reminded me of the first name. I would like to see what Dad Russell would come up with in making a Spaghetti, or any, western. Ken, it would be great to have him on these boards. "Point-of-view is Everything!" Cyclops in THE ATOMIC SUBMARINE
Unregistered(d)	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#7	[-]
Posts: 0 Jan 29 01 6:45 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"He was a genius...I swear he was a genius." I love that repeated line in VENGEANCE, mac. Some of the shots are amazing, like the one where we see the villain on a rock in the distance between Harrison's clenched hand and holster in the foreground. I also like the very first image looking down on the drawing and quartering of Joko's brother. "If it's not in frame, it doesn't exist!" F.W. Murnau in SHADOW OF THE VAMPIRE
Ken Hanke	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#8	[-]
Posts: 71304 Jan 29 01 6:47 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well, who knows? Ken Russell might indeed show up on here some day. Actually, Ken did write a "revisionist" western called (if memory serves) HOW THE WEST WAS LOST. I've read the screenplay and it might well have made an intriguing film, but, of course, it's never been made.
Ken Hanke	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#9	[-]
Posts: 71304 Jan 29 01 6:50 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	And I frankly think this whole Ken Russell/Toby Russell think is a plot to get me to read this folder...
Unregistered(d)	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#10	[-]
Posts: 0 Jan 29 01 7:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ken, it's just plain UNAMERICAN not to be into westerns. Are you a COMMIE or something? "If it's not in frame, it doesn't exist!" F.W. Murnau in SHADOW OF THE VAMPIRE
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Ken Hanke	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#11	[-]
Posts: 71304 Jan 29 01 7:47 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Definitely or something.
Unregistered(d)	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#12	[-]
Posts: 0 Jan 30 01 2:06 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Frankly, Kenneth, I think that your attendance in this forum lends a delightfully butch quality to your personality. Although, if gossip can be believed, your propensity for wearing spurs (that jingle, jangle, jingle) would greatly attest that you're no tenderfoot, Cowboy! Regards, macnemo
Richard Valley	Re: Spaghetti Westerns	#13	[-]
Posts: 54081 Feb 5 01 6:26 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Not a subgenre I've ever been partial to, pilgrim, though I guess I really haven't seen enough to form a definite opinion about them. On the other hand, I can't even remember the names of the ones I HAVE seen . . .
Bavafreak	Leone, Bava, Fulci, etc	#14	[-]
Posts: 5693 Feb 6 01 8:12 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I hate most westerns, but the Spaghetti variety does appeal to me. There's something peculiar and unorthodox about them, as opposed to the homegrown variety which generally (Eastwood's UNFORGIVEN is a notable exception) bore me to tears. Mario Bava made three westerns, none of which are among the genre's best (or worst), with ROY COLT & WINCHESTER JACK being the most daring and subversive. Lucio Fulci did his time in the genre, producing some good (FOUR OF THE APOCALYPSE) and not so good (SILVER SADDLE) efforts. But the King, for me, is Sergio Leone. ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST is one of the great films, I think, and I also love FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE (great chemistry between Eastwood and Van Cleef), THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY, FISTFUL OF DOLLARS and DUCK YOU SUCKER.
Unregistered(d)	Re: Leone, Bava, Fulci, etc	#15	[-]
Posts: 0 Feb 7 01 1:53 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Bavafreak: I'm slightly less dismissive of the genre than you are, Laddie. I really cannot stand cornball oaters starring Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers, and Gene Autry; the "singing cowboy" subgenre doesn't at all appeal to me. I do have a healthy respect for more "adult" westerns directed by Anthony Mann ( The Far Country, The Man from Laramie, and The Naked Spur) and Budd Boetticher ( Decision at Sundown, Ride Lonesome, The Tall T) as well as the collaborations of Randolph Scott and Harry Joe Brown ( Ride Lonesome, The Tall T, Ten Wanted Men). But, like you, I am most partial to "Spaghetti Westerns," specifically those made by Maestro Leone whose Once Upon a Time in the West, I consider a masterpiece. Incidentally, you might want to check out Vengeance (teasingly promoted by Image Entertainment as a "Leone production." Yeah, Alfred [Alfredo?] Leone), which, besides being directed by Antonio Margheriti, features "Alan Collins," better known to you, Bava scholar, as Luciano Pignozzi aka "the Italian Peter Lorre." Stop picking it! Y'know, a little Clearasil will clear up that condition, rapidamente, Signore! Adios, Amigo, macnemo
MarkDClark	Westerns Italiano	#16	[-]
Posts: 4501 Feb 7 01 6:05 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I can't imagine anyone disputing that Leone was the bravisimo of spaghetti Westerns. All five of his Westerns are better than anything created by any of his countless imitators. However, I've seen maybe a half-dozen films that are nearly as good as some of the lesser Leones. That group would include DEATH RIDES A HORSE, A REASON TO LIVE A REASON TO DIE, and selected entries from the SABATA and DJANGO series, among others. I'm also very keen on HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER, a pseudo spaghetti Western shot in the states. In fact, the spaghetti subgenre was imitated by quite a few American film makers -- sometimes well, sometimes not so well. Macnemo, I'm happy you agree with me about Anthony Mann's Westerns. They're also among my favorites in the genre, and they're Westerns that most point toward the spaghetti movement.
Unregistered(d)	Re: Westerns Italiano	#17	[-]
Posts: 0 Feb 7 01 8:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mark: I'd be most interested in learning your take on what makes Mann's westerns distinctive from, say, the westerns of John Ford, Howard Hawks, Henry Hathaway, Sam Peckinpah, or Burt Kennedy. I am not at all a scholar of westerns, and the only reference book on the genre that I own is the Overlook Film Encyclopedia volume on The Western. How pivotal was James Stewart to Mann's westerns; i.e., was there a special chemistry between the star and director or was Stewart's presence just incidental (any actor could have played his roles)? As I perceive them, Mann's westerns transcend the genre because the protagonists are more psychologically complex and morally ambiguous than the stock white-hatted/black-hatted characters in more traditional oaters. Also, his films function more as dark character studies (which just happen to be westerns) than they do as kiddie-matinee, action-adventure shoot-em-ups. On that note, I rather enjoyed a low-budget western The Ride Back (recently issued on VHS), another absorbing character study that is similar to 3:10 to Yuma. The plot is fairly routine: a lawman ( William Conrad who also was coproducer) tracks down a killer ( Anthony Quinn). But during the course of the story the protaganists - their natures, and their motivations - don't adhere to convention and the drama of their conflict takes an intriguing, if not entirely novel, twist. In the unconventional ending, any initial presumptions about good guys and bad guys have been challenged if not shattered. Highly recommended! Regards, macnemo
MarkDClark	It's a Mann's world	#18	[-]
Posts: 4501 Feb 8 01 12:05 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	>>I'd be most interested in learning your take on what makes Mann's westerns distinctive from, say, the westerns of John Ford, Howard Hawks, Henry Hathaway, Sam Peckinpah, or Burt Kennedy.<< First off, let me say that I am not in any way knocking any of those directors, especially Ford or Hawks who I also love, or even Peckinpah who I don't personally like but recognize as a master. Nevertheless, Mann's film have a stripped-down, raw sort of vitality not seen previously in the genre. Mann's first great films were in the noir genre (T-MEN, RAW DEAL, etc.), and his Westerns play something like Western noirs. As you yourself note, his protagonists tend to be dark, driven, even haunted and morally ambiguous characters. His stories are bitter, harder-edged tales than most (though not all) Westerns. These attributes are what I think make Mann's films precursors to the spaghetti subgenre. All of this and I haven't even mentioned the superb technical precision and excellent pacing of Mann's films. >>How pivotal was James Stewart to Mann's westerns; i.e., was there a special chemistry between the star and director or was Stewart's presence just incidental (any actor could have played his roles)?<< I think there was a symbiotic relationship between actor and director on these films. Stewart benefitted because Mann's tough characters helped him reshape his squeaky-clean, nice guy image into something that played better post-WWII. Mann benefitted because Stewart was still Stewart, and audiences couldn't help but sympathize with the guy. If another actor had the lead role in, say, WINCHESTER '73 or THE NAKED SPUR, the character might seem TOO bitter and dark. Stewart made these characters and, thus, the pictures, palatable to large audiences. I haven't seen THE RIDE BACK, but on your recommendation I'll give it a look.
Unregistered(d)	Re: It's a Mann's world	#19	[-]
Posts: 0 Feb 8 01 5:26 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mark: Thanks, Pardner, for the much appreciated education. Regards, macnemo
Jobla	Suck You Ducker	#20	[-]
Posts: 795 Apr 6 01 12:12 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm not a great fan of westerns in general, and vastly prefer the Italian pepla films to the sphagetti westerns. I have a bit of affection for A LONG RIDE FROM HELL, primarily because it was the only western that Steve Reeves made (he also co-produced and co-wrote it). It opens with a marvelous mock-Morricone theme song, "Go West, Young Man!".
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