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FAVORITE MONSTERS OF FILMLAND

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Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#41	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 12 01 6:02 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Bizarre
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Unregistered(d)	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#42	[-]
Posts: 0 Sep 12 01 10:13 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Greatest Horror Films: Silent: NOSFERATU Sound: VAMPYR by Carl Dreyer CURSE OF THE DEMON might have qualified but it is tragically flawed by those producer interested special effects. The only true mystery is that our very lives are governed by dead people...Kazanian in Dario Argento's INFERNO
DonM435	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#43	[-]
Posts: 9514 Sep 13 01 8:48 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thats a very interesting list. So in one sense, history stopped in 1932? NOSFERATU is quite reasonable for best silent horror. VAMPYR is quite defendable. (As VAMPYR is only barely a sound film, you could have put it in a special category and picked another.) Ive watched it several times and given up on it, but keep going back, and it gets better. I really wish there were a decent restoration. Ive seen the same terribly-edited-long-ago print far too many times.
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#44	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 13 01 10:47 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<<CURSE OF THE DEMON might have qualified but it is tragically flawed by those producer interested special effects.>> You know, Bob, I really have to go with Bill Everson on this one. I don't think there's anything wrong with the demon, except in the one moment where he throws Karswell to the ground.
HarryLong	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#45	[-]
Posts: 25163 Sep 14 01 12:53 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think showing him at the beginning of the film is a mistake, but not showing him at the end would have made for a very bland and unsatisfying finale.
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#46	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 15 01 7:53 AM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I would concede that point, though it really doesn't bother me to see him at the beginning.
Unregistered(d)	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#47	[-]
Posts: 0 Sep 15 01 9:25 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I don't know how you can make a case for showing the demon since the entire concept of the film (both thematically and structurally) is based on not knowing/not seeing. Dana Andrews says something to the effect "better NOT to know" at the very end (ie: better not to see/show). So this scary looking demon effect violates that concept. I like the film, I like the photography, the script, the performances, the direction. But this effect has nothing to do with the thematic and visual architecture that are so carefully and subtly worked out, it simply violates them. As for VAMPYR, the kino version looks pretty good in terms of visual quality. It is a true sound film in that sound is used as a formal element and dialogue takes no precedence. The films of Lewton (and CURSE OF THE DEMON) owe a lot to VAMPYR. It's one of the very few pure HORROR films ever made. The only true mystery is that our very lives are governed by dead people...Kazanian in Dario Argento's INFERNO
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#48	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 15 01 9:44 AM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<<I don't know how you can make a case for showing the demon since the entire concept of the film (both thematically and structurally) is based on not knowing/not seeing. Dana Andrews says something to the effect "better NOT to know" at the very end (ie: better not to see/show). So this scary looking demon effect violates that concept.>> But since the demon is only seen by the victim and the audience, nothing is really violated--at least not to me. I don't know if it can be authoritatively proven, but Everson puts for the idea that Tourneur's objections to the demon being depicted were a late in the day thing that only came about after the film was criticized for the depiction much after the fact. To me, the whole question--since I don't view the film as being any deeper than the horror story it is--comes down to "Is the demon scary?" And here I definitely agree with Everson that it's "a lulu." I don't think there's any standard "right" way to deal with horror. Sometimes suggestion is better (the ending of THE NINTH GATE, for example), but other times there's nothing wrong with "delivering the goods."
Unregistered(d)	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#49	[-]
Posts: 0 Sep 15 01 10:20 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It IS a scary looking thing. For me, though, in this singular case, suggestion would have been even more effective. You know my taste for shlocky horror films (Jerry Warren, Jess Franco, Ed Wood, et al), Ken. I have taken a lot of flak for taking those filmmakers seriously. It's a very specific type of horror that was taken seriously in CURSE OF THE DEMON and giant, fire-breathing dragons from Hell really don't belong in it. I think you would have to agree with me on that very last point, Ken. It's still a good film, though, even with the ill advised FX and one I return to often. I'm looking forward to reading your article. The only true mystery is that our very lives are governed by dead people...Kazanian in Dario Argento's INFERNO
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#50	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 15 01 10:32 AM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<<It's a very specific type of horror that was taken seriously in CURSE OF THE DEMON and giant, fire-breathing dragons from Hell really don't belong in it. I think you would have to agree with me on that very last point, Ken.>> No, I really don't because I don't see that the demon undermines its seriousness. <<It's still a good film, though, even with the ill advised FX and one I return to often. I'm looking forward to reading your article.>> Well, part one of Columbia only goes through 1936. I fear you'll have to wait till part three to get my take on CURSE OF THE DEMON.
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Unregistered(d)	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#51	[-]
Posts: 0 Sep 15 01 12:13 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	On Everson's points: Tourneur may have indeed had reservations after seeing and reflecting on the product that the impressionistic, suggestive approach may have resulted in an even more haunting picture (cf I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE, CAT PEOPLE). Ken, I read your "delivering the goods" concept as suggesting that without this the film would have been lacking (Harry also suggests this when discussing the conclusion). One of the reasons THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT really worked for me is that we never see any monster of killer, we just see and hear suggestive things. It's just something I find more frightening and unsettling than giant monsters or whatever. The only true mystery is that our very lives are governed by dead people...Kazanian in Dario Argento's INFERNO
Richard Valley	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#52	[-]
Posts: 54081 Sep 15 01 1:33 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	>>But since the demon is only seen by the victim and the audience, nothing is really violated<< Except the ambiguity--so beautifully captured in THE INNOCENTS, for example--that leaves it up to the audience to decide.
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#53	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 15 01 11:39 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<<On Everson's points: Tourneur may have indeed had reservations after seeing and reflecting on the product that the impressionistic, suggestive approach may have resulted in an even more haunting picture (cf I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE, CAT PEOPLE). >> He may have, but he was apparently very non-vocal about it until others said it harmed the film. <<Ken, I read your "delivering the goods" concept as suggesting that without this the film would have been lacking (Harry also suggests this when discussing the conclusion).>> Actually, I think the film would have been utterly lacking for me had it hedged the demon, but never having seen it that way, it's only a guess. <<One of the reasons THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT really worked for me is that we never see any monster of killer, we just see and hear suggestive things. It's just something I find more frightening and unsettling than giant monsters or whatever. >> In all honesty, Bob, the only thing that frightened me about THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT is that it got good reviews--well, that and looking up the leading lady's dripping nostrils for an eternity.
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#54	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 15 01 11:41 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<<Except the ambiguity--so beautifully captured in THE INNOCENTS, for example--that leaves it up to the audience to decide. >> I'm not as reverential of THE INNOCENTS as I know I'm supposed to be, but that to one side...is ambiguity always the best path for all stories?
Brian Norliss	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#55	[-]
Posts: 2737 Sep 16 01 1:38 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	>>Except the ambiguity--so beautifully captured in THE INNOCENTS, for example--that leaves it up to the audience to decide. >>> That's just one of the things that makes it a greater movie than THE CURSE OF THE DEMON. Another is the performances.
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#56	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 16 01 9:31 AM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Brian, the day I consider THE INNOCENTS in the same league of horror film as CURSE OF THE DEMON (I'm not even sure WHY the two are being compared; they aren't much related), I will have been embalmed three days earlier.
Richard Valley	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#57	[-]
Posts: 54081 Sep 16 01 1:31 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I believe they're being compared because THE INNOCENTS is ambivalent about whether its ghosts are real or imagined, while THE CURSE OF THE DEMON makes it manifest that its demon is real from the first scene to the last, which robs the film of a dimension that I think would have improved it tremendously. It's a great film, but relegating the demon to the final scene, and perhaps showing it vaguely even then, might have made it perfect. I see no reason to doubt Jacques Tourneur's word that he objected to the demon from the start. He had virtually the same experience on CAT PEOPLE, with the inclusion of the panther. He objected to the panther then, and there's little reason to believe he'd have welcomed a similar literal manifestation of a creature in the later film. In fact, the only reason I can see for anyone thinking that Tourneur would have wanted the demon to actually appear in THE CURSE OF THE DEMON would be to bolster the argument that the film is perfect as it stands. It isn't.
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#58	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 16 01 3:16 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<<In fact, the only reason I can see for anyone thinking that Tourneur would have wanted the demon to actually appear in THE CURSE OF THE DEMON would be to bolster the argument that the film is perfect as it stands. It isn't. >> I don't believe that was Everson's reason for bringing it up. In the meantime, if for a horror film needs to be ambiguous to be great, then shouldn't HORROR OF DRACULA omit the character of Dracula?
Ken Hanke	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#59	[-]
Posts: 71372 Sep 16 01 3:19 PM Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	<<I believe they're being compared because THE INNOCENTS is ambivalent about whether its ghosts are real or imagined>> You only believe? You brought THE INNOCENTS into this.
Richard Valley	Re: Great Horror Film of All Time	#60	[-]
Posts: 54081 Sep 17 01 12:34 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	>>You only believe? You brought THE INNOCENTS into this. << That is why I feel secure in my belief . . .
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